For the newer people out there, let me introduce myself. I am clockwork71 (Chris), a Senior Member of the James16 group. In a nutshell, it means I have joined the group, understand the material, and was given my own forum in the private area. I make videos, etc.
Think of me as middle management!
Ok, now that's out of the way....
I would highly recommend something to you newer guys/girls out there. There is a "mystique" surrounding Forex trading. Those guys that make all the money are "superhuman" or something. You get bombarded with all the hyped-up stats and "results". But to be honest, we have one friend in the end: Plain, boring, old-fashioned compound interest.
One non-trading exercise that I started to work on in the beginning of my J16 tenure was to work with spreadsheets. Fijitrader, (a mysterious guru-guy in our group who actually traded his way to living in Fiji...) has a lot of information about this very topic. As I began to "tinker" with them, a few minor things hit me.
1) Compound Interest tends to have a point that is "critical mass" - at a point, it tends to "explode". This is our dream.
2) Normal working-class idiots like myself can obtain large amounts of money from seemingly small amounts, with time, interest, and reinvestment.
What I mean by this is that if you are a normal person, and can only start with something like $2000, it's alright. But this means you might need help to get along. Perhaps you get 3 months profitable in a row. Great! You are now up $300. (an example.) Why not add another $300 to your account out of your pocket to compound your principal?
With a little creative spreadsheet working, you can see how much this little "bump" can help. The truth is it's going to be very hard to make $2000 turn into $20 Million. But if you add to the pool of money getting compounded, it becomes a little more obtainable. (20 million is a stretch, but you get my point.)
As for some of the crazy claims out there on returns.....let me put it this way:
If your managed retirement account gets 20% a year, you are very, very, happy. And those guys are professionals. Some out there have actually given me grief about "only" getting 4% a month.
A quick example.....$500 turns into $54,000 in 10 years at 4% a month. Not a bad return. Imagine what it does with a larger amount of money. Remember this the next time you are reading someone that gets "15% a week." There are plenty of those guys that post on forums. Those people are who I refer to as liquidity. Their testosterone is what will cost them money and accounts in the end. It's about keeping a calm, cool head. (This is coming from someone who actually lead the entire state in penalty minutes in Ice Hockey at the High School level. 2 years in a row.)
I know you have heard it before, but trading really isn't an exciting endeavor. It's not a contact sport. In fact, if you are trading daily or 4 hour charts, (LIKE MOST OF YOU SHOULD BE.) you should be able to put on a trade - set your stops, and leave the house.
My opinion is that you can do nothing but screw up a trade if you watch it. Trust me, Murphy's Law.
Ok, off the soapbox. Sorry gang!
Clockwork71
вторник, 15 сентября 2009 г.
To All Newbies
To All Newbies:
I encourage you all to read this thread from beginning to end. And then, read it again, and again, and again. Finally, pay attention to what James and the senior members say and stick to it.
For the last two weeks, I've taken a step back and just started really focusing on s/r, the location of the bars, and divergence via demo. The result: 100% success. This stuff works, but you have to put in the time, be patient, and never give up (now if I can only listen to my own advice).
It's like, I've fallen in love with this method all over again. Thanks James and the rest of the James16 crew.
I encourage you all to read this thread from beginning to end. And then, read it again, and again, and again. Finally, pay attention to what James and the senior members say and stick to it.
For the last two weeks, I've taken a step back and just started really focusing on s/r, the location of the bars, and divergence via demo. The result: 100% success. This stuff works, but you have to put in the time, be patient, and never give up (now if I can only listen to my own advice).
It's like, I've fallen in love with this method all over again. Thanks James and the rest of the James16 crew.
great question and one that never gets asked mostly because people dont read the entire thread.
great question and one that never gets asked mostly because people dont read the entire thread.
the answer is simple.
a large percentage of my trading to this day IS daytrading but not forex.
why did i talk about it then and not now?
forex factory back then was about 50 people total and i never in a million years saw this happening to this thread. what started out to be "just another thread headed for oblivion" quickly became very serious stuff for a growing number of people. once i saw that i knew the right thing to do was to be upfront and honest. what is upfront and honest?
beginner daytraders never make it in this business. MOST position/swing traders dont make it long term.
I knew i stood a pretty good chance of helping a fair percentage of people find some position/swing trading success but daytrading is different.
You can give most traders a daytrading method that finds a decent profit 80 plus percent of the time and 80 plus percent of them will still fail and find a way to lose all there money.
i also knew when i quit talking about it that a certain percentage of people that followed my stuff would find success with the longer time frames and use the same material to find some success daytrading
my choice has been to let that happen naturally and its probably the single best decision i have ever made pertaining to this thread.
succesful daytraders are not born they are made. made by blood, sweat and tears and countless hours of brutal hard work and self discovery.
succesful daytrading is a personal journey after a succesful method is discovered. its 95 percent between the ears and psychological in virtually every respect.
jim
the answer is simple.
a large percentage of my trading to this day IS daytrading but not forex.
why did i talk about it then and not now?
forex factory back then was about 50 people total and i never in a million years saw this happening to this thread. what started out to be "just another thread headed for oblivion" quickly became very serious stuff for a growing number of people. once i saw that i knew the right thing to do was to be upfront and honest. what is upfront and honest?
beginner daytraders never make it in this business. MOST position/swing traders dont make it long term.
I knew i stood a pretty good chance of helping a fair percentage of people find some position/swing trading success but daytrading is different.
You can give most traders a daytrading method that finds a decent profit 80 plus percent of the time and 80 plus percent of them will still fail and find a way to lose all there money.
i also knew when i quit talking about it that a certain percentage of people that followed my stuff would find success with the longer time frames and use the same material to find some success daytrading
my choice has been to let that happen naturally and its probably the single best decision i have ever made pertaining to this thread.
succesful daytraders are not born they are made. made by blood, sweat and tears and countless hours of brutal hard work and self discovery.
succesful daytrading is a personal journey after a succesful method is discovered. its 95 percent between the ears and psychological in virtually every respect.
jim
Thanks Jarroo and James
Thanks Jarroo and James...
But I must speak. I had to learn to the hard way.
I started to trade with a lot of indicators and I've lost some money. I don't broke my account, but l learned what happens when we want to do the things in the wrong way.
So after read the whole thread, I did a demo trade and only after being profitable after 3 months I go to live account.
One of the best advice that most people of the thread and especially James say is: demo trade, at least 3 months before go live.
Doing that and do successfully it's one of the keys of make money in Forex.
Thanks again to open my eyes
But I must speak. I had to learn to the hard way.
I started to trade with a lot of indicators and I've lost some money. I don't broke my account, but l learned what happens when we want to do the things in the wrong way.
So after read the whole thread, I did a demo trade and only after being profitable after 3 months I go to live account.
One of the best advice that most people of the thread and especially James say is: demo trade, at least 3 months before go live.
Doing that and do successfully it's one of the keys of make money in Forex.
Thanks again to open my eyes
Trade PB's
Trade PB's that pull back on a trend and enjoy a winning 90%. CT trading is just stupid and a good way to blow out a account. Yes when I started doing PB's I CT traded them because that's when they show up 95% of the time. If I did not know what I was doing I would of been screwed many of the times.
Mike has a good point, think of playing the market like playing cards, only trade the rich deck's and dont screw with the 4-9 off-sute's. If you are going to CT something you better have your charts correct and know that it will not be a long term move. I went long off the 5min this am but if you read my chart I posted I knew I was against everything all trends on all times, BUT I had a setup with RSI divergence that I have traded over 2000 times and made a good living doing it for years so I did not even think about it when I jumped into it.
One thing you guys need to look at is trend, yes we do not trend all the time but we get some nice long month long+ trend moves, and this helps show what way we are going, sure you may have a day that is down when the long trend is up BUT you have to know that 80% of the time we are going to be going up.
Here is how I add it all up in my head, my trade soup.
Time = 20%
Long Term trend = 20%
PA = 50%
RSI = 10% *** Unless I am doing a CT trade then RSI is about 50%, price is 20% and TIME is 30%.
Take a piece of paper TAPE it on your screen and write down your rules, print out days you lost and go over them again and again, NEVER trade on emotion, if you get excited trading your doing it wrong.
Mike has a good point, think of playing the market like playing cards, only trade the rich deck's and dont screw with the 4-9 off-sute's. If you are going to CT something you better have your charts correct and know that it will not be a long term move. I went long off the 5min this am but if you read my chart I posted I knew I was against everything all trends on all times, BUT I had a setup with RSI divergence that I have traded over 2000 times and made a good living doing it for years so I did not even think about it when I jumped into it.
One thing you guys need to look at is trend, yes we do not trend all the time but we get some nice long month long+ trend moves, and this helps show what way we are going, sure you may have a day that is down when the long trend is up BUT you have to know that 80% of the time we are going to be going up.
Here is how I add it all up in my head, my trade soup.
Time = 20%
Long Term trend = 20%
PA = 50%
RSI = 10% *** Unless I am doing a CT trade then RSI is about 50%, price is 20% and TIME is 30%.
Take a piece of paper TAPE it on your screen and write down your rules, print out days you lost and go over them again and again, NEVER trade on emotion, if you get excited trading your doing it wrong.
My trading has only started to really work out since
from what i understand the daily and weekly pin bars which is what i look ! are more reliable on the longer timeframes
the stop is normally the highest point of the pin bar, so why do you need to over complicate things for yourself by looking at noise to make decisions ?
My trading has only started to really work out since
1. I got rid of those stupid indicators
2. Only looked to trade pin bars
3. Only look at Daily and weekly time frames
Its a lesson to be learnt in itself, but most people loose because they have to be in the market all the time, making excuses to take trades, what they dont realise is that every trade you take your risking money.
the smarter guys all know that most of the time your either out of the market altogether waiting for a class A pin bar / set up, or your holding a trade you took, until you have a reason to close!
I hope that helps answer part of your question
you only have to look at why there are so many loosers (high 90% ish) and then figure out what are the winners doing that is so different.
N
the stop is normally the highest point of the pin bar, so why do you need to over complicate things for yourself by looking at noise to make decisions ?
My trading has only started to really work out since
1. I got rid of those stupid indicators
2. Only looked to trade pin bars
3. Only look at Daily and weekly time frames
Its a lesson to be learnt in itself, but most people loose because they have to be in the market all the time, making excuses to take trades, what they dont realise is that every trade you take your risking money.
the smarter guys all know that most of the time your either out of the market altogether waiting for a class A pin bar / set up, or your holding a trade you took, until you have a reason to close!
I hope that helps answer part of your question
you only have to look at why there are so many loosers (high 90% ish) and then figure out what are the winners doing that is so different.
N
"Trying to be right"
See.... trading with preconceived ideas of direction is "trying to be right".
Just not worth it.
Price action and Confluence rules ...and not just any confluence. (I said it myself in the posts. It could go any way.) You have to zoom out and look at the complete picture. ...And, wait if it has more hurdles to a clearer run.
There was mixed information everywhere and I took a trade (even if was small) just to have something on in the market. ...and to do that, I used my thoughts on where things "should" go. "Should" is a no-no word when trading. All that matters is the probability. The best probability trades are the A++ trades.
I know there are a lot of people out there thinking that Price action is the Holy Grail. It's not. It a tool that has to be coupled with patience and self protection. ...You wait for the trades that give you the best chance of success, and you enter them with a position size that takes into account that NOTHING IS EVER a sure thing, even the best setup ever!
Sorry for rambling, ....but I know someone will read that and start to 'click' . I have, and about 95% of the time now I stick to it. It's made a massive difference.
Just not worth it.
Price action and Confluence rules ...and not just any confluence. (I said it myself in the posts. It could go any way.) You have to zoom out and look at the complete picture. ...And, wait if it has more hurdles to a clearer run.
There was mixed information everywhere and I took a trade (even if was small) just to have something on in the market. ...and to do that, I used my thoughts on where things "should" go. "Should" is a no-no word when trading. All that matters is the probability. The best probability trades are the A++ trades.
I know there are a lot of people out there thinking that Price action is the Holy Grail. It's not. It a tool that has to be coupled with patience and self protection. ...You wait for the trades that give you the best chance of success, and you enter them with a position size that takes into account that NOTHING IS EVER a sure thing, even the best setup ever!
Sorry for rambling, ....but I know someone will read that and start to 'click' . I have, and about 95% of the time now I stick to it. It's made a massive difference.
THIS IS CRITICAL.
YES!!!
THIS IS CRITICAL.
WE MUST LEARN TO:
1. notice a strong s/r area just beyond our pa if it exists.
2. know that if we trade into it we had better be prepared for a quick reversal that could give us a loss if we are not prepared.
if we know its there we have several choices.
1. get out when it gets there for a small profit.
2. take a small partial profit and move the remainder to BE.
3. stay in with your total position hoping for a break and move your stop to BE.
4. Dont enter until the level has been broken.
in the case we are looking at this level was a big round number at 5100. trading into a big number like that with a defined pivot is very very very risky. the fact remains however that price most of the time WILL reach that first s/r area whether its 200 pips or 20. in this case it did not which makes number 4 a good choice much of the time exspecially for those new to these methods.
good post as usual jarroo and i appreciate your help in this thread,
jim
THIS IS CRITICAL.
WE MUST LEARN TO:
1. notice a strong s/r area just beyond our pa if it exists.
2. know that if we trade into it we had better be prepared for a quick reversal that could give us a loss if we are not prepared.
if we know its there we have several choices.
1. get out when it gets there for a small profit.
2. take a small partial profit and move the remainder to BE.
3. stay in with your total position hoping for a break and move your stop to BE.
4. Dont enter until the level has been broken.
in the case we are looking at this level was a big round number at 5100. trading into a big number like that with a defined pivot is very very very risky. the fact remains however that price most of the time WILL reach that first s/r area whether its 200 pips or 20. in this case it did not which makes number 4 a good choice much of the time exspecially for those new to these methods.
good post as usual jarroo and i appreciate your help in this thread,
jim
This pretty much says it all
This pretty much says it all. I was wondering whether a retrace was coming to that area a couple of weeks ago when we were about to make a low near 108 or so.
Everything's already there, been posted and explained several times, (this is addressed to both Tiki as well as everyone else still getting thrown off, I'm just gonna be mean and make an example of Tiki because he knows I'm trying to tell him something valuable here and not making fun of him)..the main problem isn't not knowing..it's not allowing yourself to settle down and reduce everything to simply looking at what's already there.
You constantly run around all over the place in a frenzy, posting a bit here, nibbling there, wondering about this, that. This is bad as in that it reduces your focus and disperses too much energy.
You need to STOP, pause, sit down, focus. Think about your questions and what you're wondering about, then remember what you read, what you saw. Then go over all of it again with the questions in your mind, see if you get the answers from what's already known. Peruse the thread, your mind, your memory, link it up. Focus, reapply. Observe the market, not the Forum and once you've gone over everything don't look to others as a first reaction but look to what you read and know already and see whether there isn't an answer inside already that will tell you what's up..
There's only so many things the market does and can do and it does it over and over and over again...you just need to pause long enough in the chase to realize that there's nothing to chase, it's just all already sitting in front of you, you just need to sit up, take notice and start to realize..
Once you feel something's "set" and understood and has a firm foundation, THEN you go back an read more, add another bit, section, lecture, etc..incrementally progress. This is the bit that takes time, but if you don't allow it to take time and move forward slowly by focussing and reducing, it will take forever and not really move much at all.
If you pull a heavy rock with all your strength in one direction all day, it might move an inch towards a given target. If you pull it to another direction every other day it will just end up making a very deep hole in the ground by eroding a lot of sand..
Or - if you pull with all your strength in one direction all day it will go that way; if you nudge it here there and everywhere, it won't budge much at all. There, that also works as focus analogy
Everything's already there, been posted and explained several times, (this is addressed to both Tiki as well as everyone else still getting thrown off, I'm just gonna be mean and make an example of Tiki because he knows I'm trying to tell him something valuable here and not making fun of him)..the main problem isn't not knowing..it's not allowing yourself to settle down and reduce everything to simply looking at what's already there.
You constantly run around all over the place in a frenzy, posting a bit here, nibbling there, wondering about this, that. This is bad as in that it reduces your focus and disperses too much energy.
You need to STOP, pause, sit down, focus. Think about your questions and what you're wondering about, then remember what you read, what you saw. Then go over all of it again with the questions in your mind, see if you get the answers from what's already known. Peruse the thread, your mind, your memory, link it up. Focus, reapply. Observe the market, not the Forum and once you've gone over everything don't look to others as a first reaction but look to what you read and know already and see whether there isn't an answer inside already that will tell you what's up..
There's only so many things the market does and can do and it does it over and over and over again...you just need to pause long enough in the chase to realize that there's nothing to chase, it's just all already sitting in front of you, you just need to sit up, take notice and start to realize..
Once you feel something's "set" and understood and has a firm foundation, THEN you go back an read more, add another bit, section, lecture, etc..incrementally progress. This is the bit that takes time, but if you don't allow it to take time and move forward slowly by focussing and reducing, it will take forever and not really move much at all.
If you pull a heavy rock with all your strength in one direction all day, it might move an inch towards a given target. If you pull it to another direction every other day it will just end up making a very deep hole in the ground by eroding a lot of sand..
Or - if you pull with all your strength in one direction all day it will go that way; if you nudge it here there and everywhere, it won't budge much at all. There, that also works as focus analogy
I am doing as J16 has always said
I am doing as J16 has always said. You can be quite profitable just trading daily Pin Bars.
A bit of background. I had never traded before until I found Forex, 2 years ago. To me XXXX was a beer. I have tried to follow J16’s advice on how to be a good trader.
I spent 18 months on demo, doing like most others system hoping, but at the same time learning about how I like and dislike to trade. It wasn’t until I came across J16 post about trading just daily PB’s that and that alone could make you wealthy. I stopped trading all kinds of PA and just worked on PB’s until I finally proved I could trade PB’s successfully for three months in a row and archive 5% return. Now I am trading the same live as I did on demo, with a small amount of capital but every month that I archive my 5% I add more capital.
This month I added another zero by trading to the end of my account. So it was suggested that I write something to give hope to all those that are still struggling and let them know that it is possible.
The biggest thing I would suggest for anyone trying to master PA is to just pick one type of PA and trade that solely until profitable in demo then go live, with a small amount and build up as you grow more confident in your trading.
Another is money management. I am only risking 1% on any single trade. I don’t even think about that anymore it has become such a habit now that I don’t even think about it I just do it.
Also don’t forget to have a Trading Plan I cannot stress enough how important this is. It should cover every possible scenario like when to get in and how to get out but also a lot of areas that get missed that relate to how you will measure your success, how you will reward yourself for archiving success. A lot of my trading plan contains goals from daily to weekly to monthly even have yearly goals and rewards for there achievement. Check out Isotonic’s thread on it. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=4073
And if you don’t have a trading plan ask yourself why are you to cool for a trading plan ????
I would also like to thank Mike (mbqb11) as his input on exits was a great help in getting it over the line.
I still have a long way to go but I am that much closer now to reaching my goals and that it doesn’t seem so far away or impossible to archive.
Enjoy
Ademac
__________________
"Remember the definition of a winning attitude: a positive expectation of your efforts with an acceptance that whatever results you get are a perfect reflection of your level of development and what you need to learn to do better." Mark Douglas
A bit of background. I had never traded before until I found Forex, 2 years ago. To me XXXX was a beer. I have tried to follow J16’s advice on how to be a good trader.
I spent 18 months on demo, doing like most others system hoping, but at the same time learning about how I like and dislike to trade. It wasn’t until I came across J16 post about trading just daily PB’s that and that alone could make you wealthy. I stopped trading all kinds of PA and just worked on PB’s until I finally proved I could trade PB’s successfully for three months in a row and archive 5% return. Now I am trading the same live as I did on demo, with a small amount of capital but every month that I archive my 5% I add more capital.
This month I added another zero by trading to the end of my account. So it was suggested that I write something to give hope to all those that are still struggling and let them know that it is possible.
The biggest thing I would suggest for anyone trying to master PA is to just pick one type of PA and trade that solely until profitable in demo then go live, with a small amount and build up as you grow more confident in your trading.
Another is money management. I am only risking 1% on any single trade. I don’t even think about that anymore it has become such a habit now that I don’t even think about it I just do it.
Also don’t forget to have a Trading Plan I cannot stress enough how important this is. It should cover every possible scenario like when to get in and how to get out but also a lot of areas that get missed that relate to how you will measure your success, how you will reward yourself for archiving success. A lot of my trading plan contains goals from daily to weekly to monthly even have yearly goals and rewards for there achievement. Check out Isotonic’s thread on it. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=4073
And if you don’t have a trading plan ask yourself why are you to cool for a trading plan ????
I would also like to thank Mike (mbqb11) as his input on exits was a great help in getting it over the line.
I still have a long way to go but I am that much closer now to reaching my goals and that it doesn’t seem so far away or impossible to archive.
Enjoy
Ademac
__________________
"Remember the definition of a winning attitude: a positive expectation of your efforts with an acceptance that whatever results you get are a perfect reflection of your level of development and what you need to learn to do better." Mark Douglas
DO 2 THINGS
WELL IF YOUR SERIOUS ABOUT YOUR VOW YOU WILL DO 2 THINGS.
1. read this entire thread
2. demo what you learn until your profitable for at least 3 months in a row on no less than a daily time frame.
if you will do this and stay tuned into this thread i will bet you by mid year you will be making money and indicators will not be part of it.
jim
1. read this entire thread
2. demo what you learn until your profitable for at least 3 months in a row on no less than a daily time frame.
if you will do this and stay tuned into this thread i will bet you by mid year you will be making money and indicators will not be part of it.
jim
Outliers is a great book
Outliers is a great book. I think the big thing about putting in 10,000 hours is not just the screen time (in our case as traders). Experts in any field are most likely thinking about their field almost all the time, even when not working. I know that when I'm away from the computer I find myself visualizing different trading situations without even realizing it at first. I think this is a huge reason why testing is so important. You really need to pound this stuff into your head until its ingrained in your mind. Anyone starting out on this thread should read the WHOLE thing. You would be cheating yourself to skip any of it. Every page has some value...even if its repetitive.
HERE I GO AGAIN
Anyone that has actually read this entire thread knows that I make the following post about every 3 to 6 months. Its been a while and I see a lot of new people so here it comes again. I know im being scrooge on a really good day but this is why i do what i do. I try to keep you from going thru the heartache and financial distruction i did many years ago.
I dont care how you choose to trade. It could be with a clean chart like we do here or it could be with 182 different indicators on your chart. It does not matter.
If your new to trading and your trading with real money on 1 hour charts your not gonna make it.
Obviously the following is just my opinion. it is not intended to start a debate. It is my opinion based on almost 26 years of experience. Take it as you will but never forget that this business has the potential to take good and decent people and ruin them. not just there money but there very lives.
The following has been beaten to death i know but i dont care. If it wakes up one person then its worth it.
If you are new to trading and/or you have had difficulty finding some consistent success, you must understand something. This is not a game and it's not a way to get rich quick. I suppose there is the odd exception of the person with a ton of money to play with, but if you approach this business without a business plan and the willingness to follow it, you are almost certainly doomed to failure. A doctor spends ten plus years in a grueling learning curve to be successful and earn a six figure income; anyone who thinks that their pot of gold in this business is a couple of months down the road is in for a rude awakening.
Below is a minimum requirement (in my opinion) to find out without losing your @#!@#$%$# if this business is for you. By following these recommendations, you will be treating trading like a business and you will be learning and gaining confidence. I think this is so important, I am going to make the following statement: If you start out in this business using no common sense, you have no one to blame other than yourself when you lose all your money.
There is no reason to ever lose a dime of your money while learning to trade. A well thought-out business plan, common sense and hard work is required for anyone who wants a chance at success. Many people meet those requirements and still fail, but it does not mean you have to watch your bank account go to zero.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST (AT A MINIMUM):
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and don't do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they don't treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of their life and it's because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income, is it worth it? The choice is yours.
I dont care how you choose to trade. It could be with a clean chart like we do here or it could be with 182 different indicators on your chart. It does not matter.
If your new to trading and your trading with real money on 1 hour charts your not gonna make it.
Obviously the following is just my opinion. it is not intended to start a debate. It is my opinion based on almost 26 years of experience. Take it as you will but never forget that this business has the potential to take good and decent people and ruin them. not just there money but there very lives.
The following has been beaten to death i know but i dont care. If it wakes up one person then its worth it.
If you are new to trading and/or you have had difficulty finding some consistent success, you must understand something. This is not a game and it's not a way to get rich quick. I suppose there is the odd exception of the person with a ton of money to play with, but if you approach this business without a business plan and the willingness to follow it, you are almost certainly doomed to failure. A doctor spends ten plus years in a grueling learning curve to be successful and earn a six figure income; anyone who thinks that their pot of gold in this business is a couple of months down the road is in for a rude awakening.
Below is a minimum requirement (in my opinion) to find out without losing your @#!@#$%$# if this business is for you. By following these recommendations, you will be treating trading like a business and you will be learning and gaining confidence. I think this is so important, I am going to make the following statement: If you start out in this business using no common sense, you have no one to blame other than yourself when you lose all your money.
There is no reason to ever lose a dime of your money while learning to trade. A well thought-out business plan, common sense and hard work is required for anyone who wants a chance at success. Many people meet those requirements and still fail, but it does not mean you have to watch your bank account go to zero.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST (AT A MINIMUM):
- ON DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES, YOU ONLY DEMO-TRADE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE PROFITABLE MONTHS IN A ROW. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP TWO UNTIL COMPLETED.
- OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH HALF OF THE INVESTMENT YOU INTENDED TO GO FULL WITH AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE PROFITABLE THREE MONTHS IN A ROW MINIMUM. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP THREE UNTIL STEP TWO IS COMPLETED.
FUND A FULL ACCOUNT AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE CONSISTENTLY BUILDING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN 2 OR 3 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. - IF AND WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DAYTRADE ON A SMALL TIME-FRAME AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE, AT A MINIMUM, YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY GOING TO FIND YOURSELFE IN TROUBLE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW A SYSTEM OR ANY TRADING STYLE AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE AS FAR AS THE DEMO PROCESS, YOU ARE NOT TREATING IT AS A BUSINESS AND YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME OTHER THAN YOURSELF IF YOU LOSE YOUR MONEY.
- IF YOU EVER SUFFER THE LOSS OF 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT, YOU STOP TRADING. PERIOD-PARAGRAPH. YOU GO BACK TO DEMO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. WHILE DOING THIS, YOU REFUND YOUR ACCOUNT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL AMOUNT. YOU DO NOT GO BACK TO LIVE TRADING AGAIN UNTIL YOUR DEMO HAS SHOWN YOU WHAT WENT WRONG AND YOUR ACCOUNT IS BACK TO FULL STRENGTH BY WHATEVER MEANS. IF IT TAKES ONE MONTH OR SIX MONTHS, IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS APPROACH IF YOU DON'T WANT BLOWN ACCOUNT AFTER BLOWN ACCOUNT.
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and don't do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they don't treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of their life and it's because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income, is it worth it? The choice is yours.
The attraction to forex for me i
Hi ya all,
Don't post much as usually don't feel I can add value but really touched by unlv's post and the subsequent replies and of course James who's posts always impress me.....I think its the empathy for others that shines through.
The attraction to forex for me is
1. I can be my own boss
2. I can invest as much or little as I like, ie, time, effort and money
3. If its not going good I can stop for a while
4. It lures me with promises of freedom such as from one day hopefully never having to work for corporation again or for others perhaps not having their employer dictate their lives...
5. It challenges my negative emotions. Fear, greed, impatience.... and makes me work to improve them.
I hope it works out for you unlv, just hang in there and trade small amounts and make sure you continually test and improve your emotions !
Best wishes all,
Joe in that place downunder
Don't post much as usually don't feel I can add value but really touched by unlv's post and the subsequent replies and of course James who's posts always impress me.....I think its the empathy for others that shines through.
The attraction to forex for me is
1. I can be my own boss
2. I can invest as much or little as I like, ie, time, effort and money
3. If its not going good I can stop for a while
4. It lures me with promises of freedom such as from one day hopefully never having to work for corporation again or for others perhaps not having their employer dictate their lives...
5. It challenges my negative emotions. Fear, greed, impatience.... and makes me work to improve them.
I hope it works out for you unlv, just hang in there and trade small amounts and make sure you continually test and improve your emotions !
Best wishes all,
Joe in that place downunder
losing money
Yeah. But for most traders it takes a lot of pain (losing money)... at least it did for me. I still make mistakes to this day. I just don't have all those newbie issues that you have for the first five years of trading. But I still have patience problems from time to time.
If you really want it, however, and you're willing to burn through a lot of cash to get there, then you'll most likely be successful. Most people have neither. Most are looking for the quick money that they see on those late night FOREX commercials...
It's unfortunate too. Because this is the only job I know of that offers both money and freedom. At the same time. So you would think people would give it their all and have a never say die mentality (which is what you need to be successful). Unfortunately, most don't.
If you really want it, however, and you're willing to burn through a lot of cash to get there, then you'll most likely be successful. Most people have neither. Most are looking for the quick money that they see on those late night FOREX commercials...
It's unfortunate too. Because this is the only job I know of that offers both money and freedom. At the same time. So you would think people would give it their all and have a never say die mentality (which is what you need to be successful). Unfortunately, most don't.
Nice post
nice post cat. i literally pump my fist in glee when i see posts like this one.
missed oppurtunities will mean nothing to you when the "missed oppurtunity" was preceeded by a winning trade that was worth more than what most people make in a year. people like you have a real chance of actually making it to that point.
when and if you do an amazing thing will happen. you will be so picky it will make you laugh when you compare your thought process to those days when you were desperatly trying to build an account. you will find yourself literally looking for one perfect set up a month because YOU WILL KNOW its all you need. trading anything other than perfection will not be of any interest to you.
its a great day when that happens. truly a great day but the road to that day is long and arduous. you will get there if you keep your wits about you and continue to "think right". common sense got you to this point and it can carry you the rest of the way if your patient and allow it.
success in this business never comes to those that dont deserve it. i love a lot of things about this business but thats one of the things i love the most.
jim
missed oppurtunities will mean nothing to you when the "missed oppurtunity" was preceeded by a winning trade that was worth more than what most people make in a year. people like you have a real chance of actually making it to that point.
when and if you do an amazing thing will happen. you will be so picky it will make you laugh when you compare your thought process to those days when you were desperatly trying to build an account. you will find yourself literally looking for one perfect set up a month because YOU WILL KNOW its all you need. trading anything other than perfection will not be of any interest to you.
its a great day when that happens. truly a great day but the road to that day is long and arduous. you will get there if you keep your wits about you and continue to "think right". common sense got you to this point and it can carry you the rest of the way if your patient and allow it.
success in this business never comes to those that dont deserve it. i love a lot of things about this business but thats one of the things i love the most.
jim
your trading with real money when you should not be
finally being honest with myself many years ago was how i turned things around so my comments are not intended to be critical. your pissed for one reason and one reason only and its the same reason i used to get pissed. your trading with real money when you should not be.
are you actually saying that you just "tried something" with real money without ever testing and getting good at it with some sort of research as part of your trading business? i guess i cant say for sure this is the case g but it sure sounds like it.
this is the curse of this business that never ceases to blow my mind. smart people that throw everything they know about common sense and sound business principles out the window.
THIS WAS ME for over 8 years so im not pointing fingers. ive got a bunch of emails covering the last two months from people that have made great returns on there accounts. they tend to be the ones that demoed for months until they got damn good at it.
i will post some charts showing some of them and the moves they caught over the past 2 plus months. some of them are mind blowing huge moves. stay tuned.
if i can help you in any way g all you have to do is ask.
Jim
are you actually saying that you just "tried something" with real money without ever testing and getting good at it with some sort of research as part of your trading business? i guess i cant say for sure this is the case g but it sure sounds like it.
this is the curse of this business that never ceases to blow my mind. smart people that throw everything they know about common sense and sound business principles out the window.
THIS WAS ME for over 8 years so im not pointing fingers. ive got a bunch of emails covering the last two months from people that have made great returns on there accounts. they tend to be the ones that demoed for months until they got damn good at it.
i will post some charts showing some of them and the moves they caught over the past 2 plus months. some of them are mind blowing huge moves. stay tuned.
if i can help you in any way g all you have to do is ask.
Jim
This is directed toward ALL readers of this thread
This is directed toward ALL readers of this thread.
PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SEEK IS SAYING.
IF YOU CANT TRADE DAILY ON DEMO WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT DO IT WITH REAL MONEY.
IF YOU CANT TRADE DAILY WITH REAL MONEY WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT TRADE 4 HOUR.
IF YOU CANT TRADE 4 HOUR ON DEMO WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT TRADE IT WITH REAL MONEY.
THIS IS A PROCESS WHICH REQUIRES COMMON SENSE.
The material in this thread has helped many people but its not the most important lesson/s contained here.
The most important lesson in this thread and the single biggest reason it has produced results for people is the constant pounding home of one fact.
IF YOU WILL COMBINE THIS MATERIAL WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS A BUSINESS AND MUST BE TREATED AS SUCH YOU CAN OVER TIME SLOWLY BEGIN TO FIND SOME REAL SUCCESS.
I know people get tired of me saying this but here it goes again.
DO YOU REALLY THINK (ONE WEEK,ONE MONTH OR WHATEVER) OF READING A THREAD/METHOD AND THEN TRADING WITH REAL MONEY IS GOING TO WORK WITH NO INDEPTH RESEARCH AND PRACTICE?
CMON FOLKS THINK ABOUT IT.
A PLAN FOR SUCCESS.
1.3 succesful months in a row on daily while demoing (minimum)
2. on daily 3 to 6 months in a row with success with a small account never risking more than 1 or 2 percent per trade.
3. on daiy full size account 3 to 6 months in a row of success with 1 to 2 percent risk.
4. now you can try 4 hour following the SAME PLAN AS ABOVE.
5. if YOU EVER lose roughly 30 percent of your account you STOP TRADING and go back to demo to find out what went wrong. YOU DONT GO BACK LIVE until your account is refunded to its original size.
The outline above assures you will be treating this as a business and garuntees you will never blow out an account.
iF YOU CANT GIVE YOURSELF A COUPLE OF YEARS TO MASTER THIS BUSINESS AND ALONG THE WAY USE SOME COMMON SENSE YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF SUCCESS.
IM literally begging each and every reader of this thread to wake up to this fact.
95 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT TRY THIS BUSINESS FAIL AND THE REASONS ARE NOT HIDDEN. THEY ARE AS CLEAR AS A DEEP BLUE SKY. THEY ARE HIDDEN FROM NO ONE.
PEOPLE REFUSE TO SEE THE OBVIOUS AND TO THERE OWN DEMISE.
I know this is really big rant even for me but its part of my soul.
IVE BEEN THERE.
Jim
PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SEEK IS SAYING.
IF YOU CANT TRADE DAILY ON DEMO WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT DO IT WITH REAL MONEY.
IF YOU CANT TRADE DAILY WITH REAL MONEY WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT TRADE 4 HOUR.
IF YOU CANT TRADE 4 HOUR ON DEMO WITH SUCCESS YOU CANT TRADE IT WITH REAL MONEY.
THIS IS A PROCESS WHICH REQUIRES COMMON SENSE.
The material in this thread has helped many people but its not the most important lesson/s contained here.
The most important lesson in this thread and the single biggest reason it has produced results for people is the constant pounding home of one fact.
IF YOU WILL COMBINE THIS MATERIAL WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS A BUSINESS AND MUST BE TREATED AS SUCH YOU CAN OVER TIME SLOWLY BEGIN TO FIND SOME REAL SUCCESS.
I know people get tired of me saying this but here it goes again.
DO YOU REALLY THINK (ONE WEEK,ONE MONTH OR WHATEVER) OF READING A THREAD/METHOD AND THEN TRADING WITH REAL MONEY IS GOING TO WORK WITH NO INDEPTH RESEARCH AND PRACTICE?
CMON FOLKS THINK ABOUT IT.
A PLAN FOR SUCCESS.
1.3 succesful months in a row on daily while demoing (minimum)
2. on daily 3 to 6 months in a row with success with a small account never risking more than 1 or 2 percent per trade.
3. on daiy full size account 3 to 6 months in a row of success with 1 to 2 percent risk.
4. now you can try 4 hour following the SAME PLAN AS ABOVE.
5. if YOU EVER lose roughly 30 percent of your account you STOP TRADING and go back to demo to find out what went wrong. YOU DONT GO BACK LIVE until your account is refunded to its original size.
The outline above assures you will be treating this as a business and garuntees you will never blow out an account.
iF YOU CANT GIVE YOURSELF A COUPLE OF YEARS TO MASTER THIS BUSINESS AND ALONG THE WAY USE SOME COMMON SENSE YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF SUCCESS.
IM literally begging each and every reader of this thread to wake up to this fact.
95 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT TRY THIS BUSINESS FAIL AND THE REASONS ARE NOT HIDDEN. THEY ARE AS CLEAR AS A DEEP BLUE SKY. THEY ARE HIDDEN FROM NO ONE.
PEOPLE REFUSE TO SEE THE OBVIOUS AND TO THERE OWN DEMISE.
I know this is really big rant even for me but its part of my soul.
IVE BEEN THERE.
Jim
I just wanted to add to FXP that there's one thing always true
I just wanted to add to FXP that there's one thing always true:
Trading can be dirt simple, but for almost anyone(starting out) it is NEVER easy.
This isn't because the trading bit isn't possible(or possible to be easy); it's because people aren't easy.
I dare to say:
Trading requires many things as characteristics that are the exact opposite of the things that people lured to forex often possess.
I would even say that, for many, if they did not have the characteristics initially that WILL MAKE YOU FAIL IN FOREX, they would probably not have been interested in forex in the first place.
How is that for irony?
If anyone cares what some of those might be: need for instant satisfaction/high hopes for quick returns ==> also greed, impatience, lack of discipline, easy high emotional involvement.
-
Trading is almost exclusively about yourself after a certain point X of "getting it".
But this is getting too off topic and I don't want this to turn into a sidetracking discussion. I really don't.
But over at J16 this is one of things that I am slowly starting to realize is more important to coach people at/with, than almost any of their basic pattern recognition.
The more I watched myself on my own journey, the more I watched others on theirs, the more apparent it became that the real education really happens mostly inside our own head and that account growth very often links up with personality/character growth / behavioral adjustment.
Okay, enough excursion. I just want to put a big emphasis on and underline the fact that the idea of J16 is not just to have a place with a handful more super-secret hidden setups and PA, but imho also(and imho more importantly) geared towards resolving the exact dilemma just described above.
I certainly can say that that's what I've got my eye on.
And this, much more than the question whether approach x, y, or z is so much easier or cooler as a system or approach(heck there is almost an infinite supply of systems), is what gives the environment the value in my opinion.
The confrontation with yourself(and different ideas). If, that is, you allow it to happen.
-
Personally, I realized several times that I very often instead just got lost in the day-to-day FF fray. What I dub "gamble trades" often increased with posting intensity.
It was the isolating myself/taking breaks and retreating to a more controlled environment that helped me in getting more perspective on myself and my trading again.
There is just so incredibly much noise in the open.
One gets lured into FAR too much involvement.
I think this is a dangerous trap for almost any trader.
All of the above thoughts are just my personal opinion as someone who has traversed a variety of forums and gone through a lot of changing phases myself.
You should never just take my words and posts for granted(I've also posted a lot of silly stuff over the thousands) and you should always be skeptical of anyone on a forum.
Regardless.
This is how I feel it is.
My single, individual perception only, and so far.
Trading can be dirt simple, but for almost anyone(starting out) it is NEVER easy.
This isn't because the trading bit isn't possible(or possible to be easy); it's because people aren't easy.
I dare to say:
Trading requires many things as characteristics that are the exact opposite of the things that people lured to forex often possess.
I would even say that, for many, if they did not have the characteristics initially that WILL MAKE YOU FAIL IN FOREX, they would probably not have been interested in forex in the first place.
How is that for irony?
If anyone cares what some of those might be: need for instant satisfaction/high hopes for quick returns ==> also greed, impatience, lack of discipline, easy high emotional involvement.
-
Trading is almost exclusively about yourself after a certain point X of "getting it".
But this is getting too off topic and I don't want this to turn into a sidetracking discussion. I really don't.
But over at J16 this is one of things that I am slowly starting to realize is more important to coach people at/with, than almost any of their basic pattern recognition.
The more I watched myself on my own journey, the more I watched others on theirs, the more apparent it became that the real education really happens mostly inside our own head and that account growth very often links up with personality/character growth / behavioral adjustment.
Okay, enough excursion. I just want to put a big emphasis on and underline the fact that the idea of J16 is not just to have a place with a handful more super-secret hidden setups and PA, but imho also(and imho more importantly) geared towards resolving the exact dilemma just described above.
I certainly can say that that's what I've got my eye on.
And this, much more than the question whether approach x, y, or z is so much easier or cooler as a system or approach(heck there is almost an infinite supply of systems), is what gives the environment the value in my opinion.
The confrontation with yourself(and different ideas). If, that is, you allow it to happen.
-
Personally, I realized several times that I very often instead just got lost in the day-to-day FF fray. What I dub "gamble trades" often increased with posting intensity.
It was the isolating myself/taking breaks and retreating to a more controlled environment that helped me in getting more perspective on myself and my trading again.
There is just so incredibly much noise in the open.
One gets lured into FAR too much involvement.
I think this is a dangerous trap for almost any trader.
All of the above thoughts are just my personal opinion as someone who has traversed a variety of forums and gone through a lot of changing phases myself.
You should never just take my words and posts for granted(I've also posted a lot of silly stuff over the thousands) and you should always be skeptical of anyone on a forum.
Regardless.
This is how I feel it is.
My single, individual perception only, and so far.
Posting and reading up
Hi all,
Ive been taking a break from posting and reading up on all the goodies in the pf, I think I have enough to read for the next century! I know I have said this before, but there has been a before and after for me and a lot of others who started reading this thread and followed Jims PA. I dont mean to say we should all forget about everything else, but I personally think that all of you new to trading and new to price action or who havent been successful, consistently, at trading, should all try really hard to stick to what Jim is saying...before you get creative and start trying to follow where you ¨think¨the market is going, or where you ¨feel¨the market is going...If you want to be one of the 5% that actually make it in this market, listen to what jim says, take the Aplus setups and not the b´s or the c´s and try and think clearly about what you are doing...trading against the trend and picking bottoms and tops are not for everyone, they can be hazardous. Once you become profitable over a reasonable amount of time you can start experimenting, or use a demo, but in the meantime, this is such a great start, (I wish I had found it a few years ago it would have saved me time and money and lots and lots of heartache...)take full advantage of the information here guys, its free and it has really turned my trading around. Stick to the basics and listen to mbq, seeking and the other 1kt members who pop in to help us at all hours and regardless of how rediculous our questions, thanks guys!! Take care all, Raz
Ive been taking a break from posting and reading up on all the goodies in the pf, I think I have enough to read for the next century! I know I have said this before, but there has been a before and after for me and a lot of others who started reading this thread and followed Jims PA. I dont mean to say we should all forget about everything else, but I personally think that all of you new to trading and new to price action or who havent been successful, consistently, at trading, should all try really hard to stick to what Jim is saying...before you get creative and start trying to follow where you ¨think¨the market is going, or where you ¨feel¨the market is going...If you want to be one of the 5% that actually make it in this market, listen to what jim says, take the Aplus setups and not the b´s or the c´s and try and think clearly about what you are doing...trading against the trend and picking bottoms and tops are not for everyone, they can be hazardous. Once you become profitable over a reasonable amount of time you can start experimenting, or use a demo, but in the meantime, this is such a great start, (I wish I had found it a few years ago it would have saved me time and money and lots and lots of heartache...)take full advantage of the information here guys, its free and it has really turned my trading around. Stick to the basics and listen to mbq, seeking and the other 1kt members who pop in to help us at all hours and regardless of how rediculous our questions, thanks guys!! Take care all, Raz
disappointed in myself
Heya Raz.
I know the feeling and phenomenon. Well, it's been a bit tricky going for a lot of folks I feel. I know it's been for me, albeit mostly due to self-sabotage (great plan, manual botch up, wasting most profits...old story).
Just wanted to say that the fact that you notice this behavior and can see it also gives you the chance to work progressively against it. Find out when what "triggers" you and then find out in what ways you can prevent this.
Anything from just walking away to working out or doing a crossword or whatever. Just something to counter-act it.
If you've worked hard on it then I am convinced you will continue to work hard on it, since that work in itself is an investment you're loathe to just give up, right?
Don't be disappointed or disheartened. Use the frustration to strengthen your resolve to be more level-headed and disciplined in the future instead.
Ask yourself why you're doing the bad things. Then ask yourself why you are here trading in the first place. Ask yourself what you want. Why you want it. What it's "worth" to you. What it means to you.
Realize where you are in your value system with all this.
Get a path laid out. Look for your goals. Look for your way towards them. Have a reason. Know this reason. Keep it in mind, always. When wavering, remember. Write it down, put it on post its, write it on cardboard, hang it over your desk/TFT, whatever.
Know what you want. Know why you want it. Achieve it.
(...I admit I am once again saying 90% of this to myself..)
And as for your invincible friend, humble or not, no matter. He is of no importance to YOU or YOUR trading. YOU matter and nobody else.
Don't spend thought, consideration and emotion on it/him while you're still developing yourself. You might even consider a "cutoff" period so that you can FOCUS. Sometimes you need to be alone to be able to be with others again. Only after finding yourself you can be someone others can find again as well.
And before I go too Buddha-mystical I will just stop here. And allow me to say this wasn't "your fault" alone Raz, this is what I came around to after playing basketball with a friend today and thinking a lot about all of this for myself, too.
Take care.
SeekingLight
I know the feeling and phenomenon. Well, it's been a bit tricky going for a lot of folks I feel. I know it's been for me, albeit mostly due to self-sabotage (great plan, manual botch up, wasting most profits...old story).
Just wanted to say that the fact that you notice this behavior and can see it also gives you the chance to work progressively against it. Find out when what "triggers" you and then find out in what ways you can prevent this.
Anything from just walking away to working out or doing a crossword or whatever. Just something to counter-act it.
If you've worked hard on it then I am convinced you will continue to work hard on it, since that work in itself is an investment you're loathe to just give up, right?
Don't be disappointed or disheartened. Use the frustration to strengthen your resolve to be more level-headed and disciplined in the future instead.
Ask yourself why you're doing the bad things. Then ask yourself why you are here trading in the first place. Ask yourself what you want. Why you want it. What it's "worth" to you. What it means to you.
Realize where you are in your value system with all this.
Get a path laid out. Look for your goals. Look for your way towards them. Have a reason. Know this reason. Keep it in mind, always. When wavering, remember. Write it down, put it on post its, write it on cardboard, hang it over your desk/TFT, whatever.
Know what you want. Know why you want it. Achieve it.
(...I admit I am once again saying 90% of this to myself..)
And as for your invincible friend, humble or not, no matter. He is of no importance to YOU or YOUR trading. YOU matter and nobody else.
Don't spend thought, consideration and emotion on it/him while you're still developing yourself. You might even consider a "cutoff" period so that you can FOCUS. Sometimes you need to be alone to be able to be with others again. Only after finding yourself you can be someone others can find again as well.
And before I go too Buddha-mystical I will just stop here. And allow me to say this wasn't "your fault" alone Raz, this is what I came around to after playing basketball with a friend today and thinking a lot about all of this for myself, too.
Take care.
SeekingLight
THIS IS A BUSINESS
thanks for this post manya and this is not meant to be critical of you but it gives me a chance to put up something i have considered doing many times. below is what all new subscribers get when they sign up for our group. anyone considering joining our group should do so only if they are willing to follow these guidelines. im not niave enough to think that most people will or do follow it but the questions will always remain. do any of you actually think this is easy? do any of you actually think this is different than starting any new business?
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST AT A MINIMUM
1. ON DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES ONLY YOU DEMO TRADE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE PROFITABLE MONTHS IN A ROW. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP TWO UNTIL COMPLETED.
2. OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH HALF WHAT YOU INTENDED TO GO FULL WITH AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE PROFITABLE THREE MONTHS IN A ROW MINIMUM. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP THREE UNTIL COMPLETED.
3. FUND A FULL ACCOUNT AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE CONSISTENTLY BUILDING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN 2 OR 3 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE.
4. If and when you decide to daytrade on small time frames and you dont follow this template at a minimum you are almost certainly going to find yourself in trouble. If you are going to follow any system and you dont follow this template as far as the demo process you are not treating it as a business and you have no one to blame other than yourself if you lose your money.
5. IF YOU EVER SUFFER THE LOSS OF 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT YOU STOP TRADING. PERIOD-PARAGRAPH. YOU GO BACK TO DEMO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. WHILE DOING THIS YOU REFUND YOUR ACCOUNT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL AMOUNT. YOU DO NOT GO BACK TO LIVE TRADING AGAIN UNTIL DEMO HAS SHOWN YOU WHAT WENT WRONG AND YOUR ACCOUNT IS BACK TO FULL STRENGTH BY WHATEVER MEANS. IF IT TAKES A MONTH OR SIX MONTHS IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS APPROACH IF YOU DONT WANT BLOWN ACCOUNT AFTER BLOWN ACCOUNT.
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and dont do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they dont treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of thier life and its because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income is it worth it? The choice is yours.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST AT A MINIMUM
1. ON DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES ONLY YOU DEMO TRADE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE PROFITABLE MONTHS IN A ROW. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP TWO UNTIL COMPLETED.
2. OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH HALF WHAT YOU INTENDED TO GO FULL WITH AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE PROFITABLE THREE MONTHS IN A ROW MINIMUM. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP THREE UNTIL COMPLETED.
3. FUND A FULL ACCOUNT AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE CONSISTENTLY BUILDING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN 2 OR 3 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE.
4. If and when you decide to daytrade on small time frames and you dont follow this template at a minimum you are almost certainly going to find yourself in trouble. If you are going to follow any system and you dont follow this template as far as the demo process you are not treating it as a business and you have no one to blame other than yourself if you lose your money.
5. IF YOU EVER SUFFER THE LOSS OF 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT YOU STOP TRADING. PERIOD-PARAGRAPH. YOU GO BACK TO DEMO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. WHILE DOING THIS YOU REFUND YOUR ACCOUNT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL AMOUNT. YOU DO NOT GO BACK TO LIVE TRADING AGAIN UNTIL DEMO HAS SHOWN YOU WHAT WENT WRONG AND YOUR ACCOUNT IS BACK TO FULL STRENGTH BY WHATEVER MEANS. IF IT TAKES A MONTH OR SIX MONTHS IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS APPROACH IF YOU DONT WANT BLOWN ACCOUNT AFTER BLOWN ACCOUNT.
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and dont do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they dont treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of thier life and its because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income is it worth it? The choice is yours.
This summary is in no way intended to replace reading the whole thread.
This summary is in no way intended to replace reading the whole thread.
It’s simply a single post where we can draw on information quickly. New members can find most of their answers to questions by simply looking through these posts and attachments. Sorry this is so long, but I think it’s pretty thorough, and I think necessary with over 23200 posts and counting.
What is it you want?
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3196
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5781
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=6912
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11639
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12411
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13429
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14895
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22559
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16023
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16067
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16435
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17986
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18857
This stuff works. Get a Plan.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7951
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=8609
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15568
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10935
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12415
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13430
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14788
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15645
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18197
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18681
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18912
Power of Demo Accounts and Size Matters
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19935
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19937
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19939
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15072
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16457
Other Quick Summaries of Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13579
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22084
Draw PPZ and Wait for PA to give trigger. Patience
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=164
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7203
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21722
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15199
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16041
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18576
Summary of types of PA with Entry/Exit example
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4572
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7649
Location is Everything
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21485
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19932
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13176
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16392
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22745
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18571
PRICE ACTION Examples (not anywhere near complete... just a glimpse):
BUOB/BEOB
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11011
FIBS
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11697
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14735
For types of Pinbars and pinbar characteristics
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3914
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20270
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22057
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19711
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14627
Pinbar statistics (do your own homework/testing)
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4503
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4548
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=8826
Divergence kills in trending market
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10624
PPZ, S/R, and Round Numbers
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14084
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14847
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15829
IBs
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=164
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21625
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17570
Breakouts
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13103
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13108
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13456
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13537
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14031
A word on Gaps
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13508
Psychology of Losing and accepting a loss
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5006
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20876
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12690
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15563
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18600
Setting Percent Risk per Trade
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12509
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13891
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17707
To post a chart from MT4
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12192
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16184
James16 Trade Strategy
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20335
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14427
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14434
Raczekfx Trade Strategy
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15825
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17523
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17524
video http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18036
EXITS
R:R
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21956
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21958
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14914
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17257
Wizard explaining exits
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3504
Seeking Light response
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3509
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5510
Ademac method of exits
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4067
Other Exit posts
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=6090
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10098
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13421
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22380
Daily versus Intraday Charts for Newbies
bundyraider http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13546
mbqb11 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13547
mbqb11 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13553
aSandman http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13557
bundyraider http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13233
aSandman http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13254
James16 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15069
James16 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15072
Ghous http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16072
I originally fought with the idea of Trading on Daily/Weekly charts only versus Intraday Charts. Here are my views on them now.
Reasons for new traders to trade 1 hour/4 hour charts
You’ll have more setups, since more bars will close each day. But you’ll be tempted to take many more of these setups, most of which will not be A+ candidates. Taking more trades does not make you a better trader. Taking better trades makes you a better trader.
You’ll be able to enter a trend earlier. True, and experienced traders do use this method of entry… But refer to #1 – not all the PA setups you’ll see are valid. In fact, the reliability of a price action setup falls as we use lower timeframes.
You need less of a pip run before you would meet your profit (because you’re stop would be closer). This also works against you, since you will need less of a run to be stopped out.
Reasons for new traders to stick to the daily/weekly charts
They are more reliable, because they incorporate more data/bar.
You will have more time to analyze the patterns and not feel rushed.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11090 As Bundy points out, you use PPZ from daily/weekly timeframes for trading intraday charts. So you might as well master this method on these longer timeframes first.
Conclusion on timeframes: I think most new traders want to use intraday charts to 1) Get rich quicker, 2) Take more trades, 3) Learn faster. These are all wrong theories. Trading is not a get rich quick scheme. As mentioned, taking more trades will not help you learn better and won’t be better for your bottom line. At some point, you have to learn to ONLY take the best setups. It’ll be easier if you do this right from the start. LEARN to only take the best trades. Guess although I’m not a master trader, I am a full advocate of using Day/Week charts to learn.
Favorite Quotes/memories
Wizard getting struck by lightning
Be a sniper, using a rifle, not a shotgun. (Not taking every set up is one of the most important things to moving forward and becoming successful. Pick and choose A+ setups only.)
Jaroo’s famous saying: “Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to maximize their profits. Professional traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to reduce/minimize their risk and reduce losses. It's all about avoiding loses. Work on that and the profits will take care of themselves. Post 10101
Mike’s Words of Wisdom in post 13812 and 14395, “It is usually what we end up doing in between all the A+ setups that usually lead to breakeven or negative trading.”
Post 16179, Forex007, “BEVOB, Bearish Vertical Outside Bar. Hmm, do we get many horizontal or diagonal bars?”
Rusty Jeff has been stung, sliced, and bitten. He swims AT sharks. This guy is crazy. But then again, James16 raises snakes, so maybe this group is crazy J
Post 18710. Rusty Jeff explaining that looking at charts plastered with indicators is like wearing glasses covered in Vaseline.
The Raczefx Equation: PA + psychology + strong desire to learn and succeed + long TF = $ in your account
The Ghous Equation: PA(location + shape) + with the trend + S/R confluence =
Ryanmcd post 14187 explaining to trade with the trend. I’ll let you read it. Had a good laugh. http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14187
Complaints/Suggestions for this thread
Use the subject/title line to note the pair and timeframe you are referencing in your post/chart.
Wait for the bar in question to close before posting it. Often the PA isn’t there when the bar closes.
Make your charts the correct size to make reading the thread much easier.
Thanks to James16 for starting this thread. Thanks to all the posters who have made it the textbook to learn, with thousands of examples, answers to every question, insight on money management and trading styles, and lots of encouragement along the way. I have learned so much about trading in the last 2 months, all from simply reading, studying, reviewing, and applying the principles in this thread. Keep it up everybody, we've really got something amazing here
Josh
It’s simply a single post where we can draw on information quickly. New members can find most of their answers to questions by simply looking through these posts and attachments. Sorry this is so long, but I think it’s pretty thorough, and I think necessary with over 23200 posts and counting.
What is it you want?
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3196
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5781
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=6912
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11639
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12411
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13429
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14895
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22559
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16023
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16067
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16435
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17986
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18857
This stuff works. Get a Plan.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7951
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=8609
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15568
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10935
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12415
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13430
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14788
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15645
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18197
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18681
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18912
Power of Demo Accounts and Size Matters
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19935
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19937
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19939
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15072
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16457
Other Quick Summaries of Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13579
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22084
Draw PPZ and Wait for PA to give trigger. Patience
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=164
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7203
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21722
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15199
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16041
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18576
Summary of types of PA with Entry/Exit example
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4572
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7649
Location is Everything
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21485
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19932
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13176
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16392
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22745
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18571
PRICE ACTION Examples (not anywhere near complete... just a glimpse):
BUOB/BEOB
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11011
FIBS
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11697
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14735
For types of Pinbars and pinbar characteristics
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3914
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20270
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22057
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=19711
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14627
Pinbar statistics (do your own homework/testing)
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4503
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4548
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=8826
Divergence kills in trending market
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10624
PPZ, S/R, and Round Numbers
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14084
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14847
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15829
IBs
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=164
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21625
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17570
Breakouts
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13103
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13108
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13456
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13537
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14031
A word on Gaps
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13508
Psychology of Losing and accepting a loss
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5006
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20876
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12690
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15563
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18600
Setting Percent Risk per Trade
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12509
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13891
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17707
To post a chart from MT4
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12192
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16184
James16 Trade Strategy
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=20335
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14427
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14434
Raczekfx Trade Strategy
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15825
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17523
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17524
video http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=18036
EXITS
R:R
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21956
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=21958
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14914
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=17257
Wizard explaining exits
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3504
Seeking Light response
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3509
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=5510
Ademac method of exits
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4067
Other Exit posts
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=6090
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=10098
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13421
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=22380
Daily versus Intraday Charts for Newbies
bundyraider http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13546
mbqb11 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13547
mbqb11 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13553
aSandman http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13557
bundyraider http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13233
aSandman http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=13254
James16 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15069
James16 http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=15072
Ghous http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=16072
I originally fought with the idea of Trading on Daily/Weekly charts only versus Intraday Charts. Here are my views on them now.
Reasons for new traders to trade 1 hour/4 hour charts
You’ll have more setups, since more bars will close each day. But you’ll be tempted to take many more of these setups, most of which will not be A+ candidates. Taking more trades does not make you a better trader. Taking better trades makes you a better trader.
You’ll be able to enter a trend earlier. True, and experienced traders do use this method of entry… But refer to #1 – not all the PA setups you’ll see are valid. In fact, the reliability of a price action setup falls as we use lower timeframes.
You need less of a pip run before you would meet your profit (because you’re stop would be closer). This also works against you, since you will need less of a run to be stopped out.
Reasons for new traders to stick to the daily/weekly charts
They are more reliable, because they incorporate more data/bar.
You will have more time to analyze the patterns and not feel rushed.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=11090 As Bundy points out, you use PPZ from daily/weekly timeframes for trading intraday charts. So you might as well master this method on these longer timeframes first.
Conclusion on timeframes: I think most new traders want to use intraday charts to 1) Get rich quicker, 2) Take more trades, 3) Learn faster. These are all wrong theories. Trading is not a get rich quick scheme. As mentioned, taking more trades will not help you learn better and won’t be better for your bottom line. At some point, you have to learn to ONLY take the best setups. It’ll be easier if you do this right from the start. LEARN to only take the best trades. Guess although I’m not a master trader, I am a full advocate of using Day/Week charts to learn.
Favorite Quotes/memories
Wizard getting struck by lightning
Be a sniper, using a rifle, not a shotgun. (Not taking every set up is one of the most important things to moving forward and becoming successful. Pick and choose A+ setups only.)
Jaroo’s famous saying: “Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to maximize their profits. Professional traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to reduce/minimize their risk and reduce losses. It's all about avoiding loses. Work on that and the profits will take care of themselves. Post 10101
Mike’s Words of Wisdom in post 13812 and 14395, “It is usually what we end up doing in between all the A+ setups that usually lead to breakeven or negative trading.”
Post 16179, Forex007, “BEVOB, Bearish Vertical Outside Bar. Hmm, do we get many horizontal or diagonal bars?”
Rusty Jeff has been stung, sliced, and bitten. He swims AT sharks. This guy is crazy. But then again, James16 raises snakes, so maybe this group is crazy J
Post 18710. Rusty Jeff explaining that looking at charts plastered with indicators is like wearing glasses covered in Vaseline.
The Raczefx Equation: PA + psychology + strong desire to learn and succeed + long TF = $ in your account
The Ghous Equation: PA(location + shape) + with the trend + S/R confluence =
Ryanmcd post 14187 explaining to trade with the trend. I’ll let you read it. Had a good laugh. http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=14187
Complaints/Suggestions for this thread
Use the subject/title line to note the pair and timeframe you are referencing in your post/chart.
Wait for the bar in question to close before posting it. Often the PA isn’t there when the bar closes.
Make your charts the correct size to make reading the thread much easier.
Thanks to James16 for starting this thread. Thanks to all the posters who have made it the textbook to learn, with thousands of examples, answers to every question, insight on money management and trading styles, and lots of encouragement along the way. I have learned so much about trading in the last 2 months, all from simply reading, studying, reviewing, and applying the principles in this thread. Keep it up everybody, we've really got something amazing here
Josh
вторник, 8 сентября 2009 г.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
This is an update to the first post of this thread on 1/14/09. This thread was started long ago when Forex Factory was a much smaller place. It was unusual at that time to see more than 20 people online at any given time. My how times have changed. This thread has changed my life in many many ways and it has changed many others as well if my email inbox is any indication. This thread is about helping people learn to trade with a simple method BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY its about providing a kind and non-threatening place for beginners. There is literally an army of old timers here that, along with me, make sure of it.
The single biggest reason this thread continues to produce winners is it constantly pounds home that this is a business and must be treated as such. Your going to get to read about that in a minute but first i want to thank someone.
Forex Factory is what it is due to the vision and care of one person, my friend Merlin. Merlin no longer carries the torch here but he is a hero to me and i am truly blessed to know and call him my friend.
ok are you ready to read the truth? are you ready to face what no beginner to this business wants to read or hear? of course its just my opinion but it comes from 26 years of blood,sweat, tears and experience. thats all i really teach here anyway...experience. Follow it and join the multitudes here that are succesful traders or dont and go thru hell like most do in this business early on including myself for 8 grueling years.
To succeed in this business you need a sound method (notice i did not say system), common sense, discipline and a rock solid understanding that if you do not treat this as a business you have a ZERO CHANCE of long term success. 95 percent of new businesses fail even when the owner knows what they are doing. Do you really think this business is going to work for you after 3 months practice or less?
Whats interesting about this business is it affords the person that chooses to use common sense a way to learn it without losing a ton of money or any for that matter. Below is the outline i used 20 years ago to finally find some success and i have become almost mental about it. To this day any new method im testing or any refinement to existing methods goes thru the same process. Also remember this. small accounts could never keep me focused to be ultra picky about my entries and you will almost surely find the same thing. small accounts = over trading and YOU SIMPLY MUST LEARN TO BE PICKY ABOUT YOUR ENTRIES. Solution? Force yourself to be ultra picky (virtually impossible) or follow the plan below while your saving.
Before the plan i want those of you that are new or struggling to read one sentence from someone that has come before you. Just a regular person just like you. This person followed the plan, got involved and stuck with it for half a year. Here are his words and they should tell you something. There are no free lunches in this business. Give it your best here for 6 months and see if you can do the same.
"Words can't describe where my trading was 6 months ago compared to where it is now"
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
If you are new to trading and/or you have had difficulty finding some consistent success, you must understand something. This is not a game and it's not a way to get rich quick. I suppose there is the odd exception of the person with a ton of money to play with, but if you approach this business without a business plan and the willingness to follow it, you are almost certainly doomed to failure. A doctor spends ten plus years in a grueling learning curve to be successful and earn a six figure income; anyone who thinks that their pot of gold in this business is a couple of months down the road is in for a rude awakening.
Below is a minimum requirement (in my opinion) to find out without losing your @#!@#$%$# if this business is for you. By following these recommendations, you will be treating trading like a business and you will be learning and gaining confidence. I think this is so important, I am going to make the following statement: If you start out in this business using no common sense, you have no one to blame other than yourself when you lose all your money. There is no reason to ever lose a dime of your money while learning to trade. A well thought-out business plan, common sense and hard work is required for anyone who wants a chance at success. Many people meet those requirements and still fail, but it does not mean you have to watch your bank account go to zero.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST (AT A MINIMUM):
ON DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES, YOU ONLY DEMO-TRADE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE PROFITABLE MONTHS IN A ROW. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP TWO UNTIL COMPLETED.
OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH HALF OF THE INVESTMENT YOU INTENDED TO GO FULL WITH AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE PROFITABLE THREE MONTHS IN A ROW MINIMUM. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP THREE UNTIL STEP TWO IS COMPLETED.
FUND A FULL ACCOUNT AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE CONSISTENTLY BUILDING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN 2 OR 3 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE.
IF AND WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DAYTRADE ON A SMALL TIME-FRAME AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE, AT A MINIMUM, YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY GOING TO FIND YOURSELFE IN TROUBLE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW A SYSTEM OR ANY TRADING STYLE AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE AS FAR AS THE DEMO PROCESS, YOU ARE NOT TREATING IT AS A BUSINESS AND YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME OTHER THAN YOURSELF IF YOU LOSE YOUR MONEY.
IF YOU EVER SUFFER THE LOSS OF 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT, YOU STOP TRADING. PERIOD-PARAGRAPH. YOU GO BACK TO DEMO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. WHILE DOING THIS, YOU REFUND YOUR ACCOUNT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL AMOUNT. YOU DO NOT GO BACK TO LIVE TRADING AGAIN UNTIL YOUR DEMO HAS SHOWN YOU WHAT WENT WRONG AND YOUR ACCOUNT IS BACK TO FULL STRENGTH BY WHATEVER MEANS. IF IT TAKES ONE MONTH OR SIX MONTHS, IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS APPROACH IF YOU DON'T WANT BLOWN ACCOUNT AFTER BLOWN ACCOUNT.
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and don't do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they don't treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of their life and it's because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income, is it worth it? The choice is yours.
Here is a post from early 2009. It says in short form what im always trying to say and cant seem to keep short.
Every question that you could probably think of has been answered several times by now. The PF (www.james16group.com) is good because it has all the material in one place, it's concentrated, without a lot of the "external noise" that you might get on a public forum. You definately just need to listen to certain voices especially in this thread (If you read the thread from the start you will just start skipping some peoples posts after a while lol, and get to the good , that's what I did )
I say if you are cash strapped then just read this thread and follow it and demo, backtest. . Work. . . No need to put yourself under financial pressure my friend. ALL of the material in the PF, ALL the excellent traders in the PF (Instructors, Senior members and traders alike) Still will not on their own make you profitable, that is up to you.
That is up to you my friend, be steadfast, brace yourself and work hard and victory will be yours . . Now, or in the future.
This thread is like a series of signposts in the RIGHT DIRECTION (To profitability ) Signposts constructed by people who have navigated the dangerous and inherently confusing jungle of forex before. I have only come to appreciate this recently, but each single line that is said by certain people in this thread, has literally hours of experience, backtesting and work behind it. To give it a seal of authority that only experience can give. . .
It's a jungle out there . . But we are lucky enough to have signposts erected for us here . . . Set in stone, by the people who have navigated their way through the jungle before us. . .
Just some of my thought's . . .
Godspeed,
T
NOTE: In over 25 years of trading and learning its important for me to give credit where credit is due.
virtually all of my methods are original but some of the ingredients are often things i have learned from others and use in my own way. This is true for all of us that truly put in time and effort to find success in this business.
I want to thank the following people and as i remember others i will add them. I think all of these people are honest and good at what they do and teach.
Martin Pring
Todd Mitchell
Austin Passamonte
below are some posts that i feel should not get lost in this very large thread. if you know of one not listed here please let me know.
below is how the thread started in early 2005.
i thought i would start a new thread to post charts. my question is this and i am sure merlin can let me know the answer. i am not sure if i want to do this yet but how many of you would like me to actually post potential trades. the thing to remember is that two people can take an identical entry and one will lose and the other will win. the variables to trading are endless. anyway what does everyone think. jim
The single biggest reason this thread continues to produce winners is it constantly pounds home that this is a business and must be treated as such. Your going to get to read about that in a minute but first i want to thank someone.
Forex Factory is what it is due to the vision and care of one person, my friend Merlin. Merlin no longer carries the torch here but he is a hero to me and i am truly blessed to know and call him my friend.
ok are you ready to read the truth? are you ready to face what no beginner to this business wants to read or hear? of course its just my opinion but it comes from 26 years of blood,sweat, tears and experience. thats all i really teach here anyway...experience. Follow it and join the multitudes here that are succesful traders or dont and go thru hell like most do in this business early on including myself for 8 grueling years.
To succeed in this business you need a sound method (notice i did not say system), common sense, discipline and a rock solid understanding that if you do not treat this as a business you have a ZERO CHANCE of long term success. 95 percent of new businesses fail even when the owner knows what they are doing. Do you really think this business is going to work for you after 3 months practice or less?
Whats interesting about this business is it affords the person that chooses to use common sense a way to learn it without losing a ton of money or any for that matter. Below is the outline i used 20 years ago to finally find some success and i have become almost mental about it. To this day any new method im testing or any refinement to existing methods goes thru the same process. Also remember this. small accounts could never keep me focused to be ultra picky about my entries and you will almost surely find the same thing. small accounts = over trading and YOU SIMPLY MUST LEARN TO BE PICKY ABOUT YOUR ENTRIES. Solution? Force yourself to be ultra picky (virtually impossible) or follow the plan below while your saving.
Before the plan i want those of you that are new or struggling to read one sentence from someone that has come before you. Just a regular person just like you. This person followed the plan, got involved and stuck with it for half a year. Here are his words and they should tell you something. There are no free lunches in this business. Give it your best here for 6 months and see if you can do the same.
"Words can't describe where my trading was 6 months ago compared to where it is now"
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
If you are new to trading and/or you have had difficulty finding some consistent success, you must understand something. This is not a game and it's not a way to get rich quick. I suppose there is the odd exception of the person with a ton of money to play with, but if you approach this business without a business plan and the willingness to follow it, you are almost certainly doomed to failure. A doctor spends ten plus years in a grueling learning curve to be successful and earn a six figure income; anyone who thinks that their pot of gold in this business is a couple of months down the road is in for a rude awakening.
Below is a minimum requirement (in my opinion) to find out without losing your @#!@#$%$# if this business is for you. By following these recommendations, you will be treating trading like a business and you will be learning and gaining confidence. I think this is so important, I am going to make the following statement: If you start out in this business using no common sense, you have no one to blame other than yourself when you lose all your money. There is no reason to ever lose a dime of your money while learning to trade. A well thought-out business plan, common sense and hard work is required for anyone who wants a chance at success. Many people meet those requirements and still fail, but it does not mean you have to watch your bank account go to zero.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS / THIS IS A BUSINESS
WHATEVER / WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO TRADE YOU MUST (AT A MINIMUM):
ON DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES, YOU ONLY DEMO-TRADE FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE PROFITABLE MONTHS IN A ROW. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP TWO UNTIL COMPLETED.
OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH HALF OF THE INVESTMENT YOU INTENDED TO GO FULL WITH AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE PROFITABLE THREE MONTHS IN A ROW MINIMUM. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE. YOU DO NOT PROCEED TO STEP THREE UNTIL STEP TWO IS COMPLETED.
FUND A FULL ACCOUNT AND CONTINUE TO ONLY TRADE DAILY AND WEEKLY TIME-FRAMES UNTIL YOU ARE CONSISTENTLY BUILDING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS. YOU NEVER RISK MORE THAN 2 OR 3 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT ON ANY ONE TRADE.
IF AND WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DAYTRADE ON A SMALL TIME-FRAME AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE, AT A MINIMUM, YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY GOING TO FIND YOURSELFE IN TROUBLE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW A SYSTEM OR ANY TRADING STYLE AND YOU DON'T FOLLOW THIS TEMPLATE AS FAR AS THE DEMO PROCESS, YOU ARE NOT TREATING IT AS A BUSINESS AND YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME OTHER THAN YOURSELF IF YOU LOSE YOUR MONEY.
IF YOU EVER SUFFER THE LOSS OF 30 TO 35 PERCENT OF YOUR ACCOUNT, YOU STOP TRADING. PERIOD-PARAGRAPH. YOU GO BACK TO DEMO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG. WHILE DOING THIS, YOU REFUND YOUR ACCOUNT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL AMOUNT. YOU DO NOT GO BACK TO LIVE TRADING AGAIN UNTIL YOUR DEMO HAS SHOWN YOU WHAT WENT WRONG AND YOUR ACCOUNT IS BACK TO FULL STRENGTH BY WHATEVER MEANS. IF IT TAKES ONE MONTH OR SIX MONTHS, IT DOES NOT MATTER. YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS APPROACH IF YOU DON'T WANT BLOWN ACCOUNT AFTER BLOWN ACCOUNT.
Your goal should be this. Learn, learn and learn some more and don't do anything stupid while your getting your feet on the ground. The ultimate goal of any trader is to build an account to a size where just a few good trades a month produces a staggering income. Hardly anyone ever gets there because they don't treat it as a business. They do stupid things that they would never do in any other area of their life and it's because of the money that can be made. If it takes you a couple of years or even five or ten to reach the level of a staggering income, is it worth it? The choice is yours.
Here is a post from early 2009. It says in short form what im always trying to say and cant seem to keep short.
Every question that you could probably think of has been answered several times by now. The PF (www.james16group.com) is good because it has all the material in one place, it's concentrated, without a lot of the "external noise" that you might get on a public forum. You definately just need to listen to certain voices especially in this thread (If you read the thread from the start you will just start skipping some peoples posts after a while lol, and get to the good , that's what I did )
I say if you are cash strapped then just read this thread and follow it and demo, backtest. . Work. . . No need to put yourself under financial pressure my friend. ALL of the material in the PF, ALL the excellent traders in the PF (Instructors, Senior members and traders alike) Still will not on their own make you profitable, that is up to you.
That is up to you my friend, be steadfast, brace yourself and work hard and victory will be yours . . Now, or in the future.
This thread is like a series of signposts in the RIGHT DIRECTION (To profitability ) Signposts constructed by people who have navigated the dangerous and inherently confusing jungle of forex before. I have only come to appreciate this recently, but each single line that is said by certain people in this thread, has literally hours of experience, backtesting and work behind it. To give it a seal of authority that only experience can give. . .
It's a jungle out there . . But we are lucky enough to have signposts erected for us here . . . Set in stone, by the people who have navigated their way through the jungle before us. . .
Just some of my thought's . . .
Godspeed,
T
NOTE: In over 25 years of trading and learning its important for me to give credit where credit is due.
virtually all of my methods are original but some of the ingredients are often things i have learned from others and use in my own way. This is true for all of us that truly put in time and effort to find success in this business.
I want to thank the following people and as i remember others i will add them. I think all of these people are honest and good at what they do and teach.
Martin Pring
Todd Mitchell
Austin Passamonte
below are some posts that i feel should not get lost in this very large thread. if you know of one not listed here please let me know.
below is how the thread started in early 2005.
i thought i would start a new thread to post charts. my question is this and i am sure merlin can let me know the answer. i am not sure if i want to do this yet but how many of you would like me to actually post potential trades. the thing to remember is that two people can take an identical entry and one will lose and the other will win. the variables to trading are endless. anyway what does everyone think. jim
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